>> from new york city, this is charlie rose. today donald sterling was banned for life from the nba. this followed the release of his

racist comments caught on an audiotape last week. he was charged with a $2.5 million fine. adam silver announced the decision at a press conference this afternoon. immediately, i am banning mr. sterling for life from any association with the clippers organization or the nba. attend anyg may not nba games or practices. he may not be present at any clippers facility. he may not participate in any business or player personal the team.involving i am finding mr. sterling $2.5 million, the maximum amount of -- allowed under the nba constitution. joining me now is mike

from the new york daily news. why youhis for me and adam silver performed brilliantly. >> this was a tremendous day for adam and rational sports. we are always trained to see where sports fits in society. even though jackie robinson when he ran out to first tasted not just change baseball, he changed the country. even though billie jean king was one of the great women's leaders this country has produced we all step back sometimes, sports world versus real world. this is an example of how a true leader. he has been on the job for three months, showed that you do not have to have experienced show passion, anger, character, and do the right thing. i think that adam silver, people

were wondering how is he going to stand up to my will he hit this guy hard enough and he hit him with everything he had. and then set it. >> you could see he was spitting mad. when he talked about how outraged he was and these hateful comments, you knew nothing good would come for donald sterling. right along -- right away he hits him with banishing him for life. was he going to be a year suspension or an indefinite suspension. >> what legally could he do? >> this is a lawyer. he clerked with campbell would in manhattan. she said he was brilliant then. what i was struck right, this was not just a lawyer. this was the humanity. he reacted to this the way you reacted to this, the way read -- we reacted when we heard the's comments. >> this is what was released

today. mark cuban, who had said some things about slippery slope before. said i agreed. and then the couple more here. magic johnson. commissioner silverman showed great leadership. there seems to be universal appreciation for the way he stepped forward. >> that is from the sport from right-thinking people. they were not just an attack on blacks playing basketball. they are an attack on all blacks. they were offensive to decent minded people. because however many years it has been since jackie robinson. 1954 was brown versus board of education. the voting rights act is 1960 four. all this time later i am not shocked that people still think

this way. i was heartened i the way the country reacted to this. donald sterling became the most famous guy. you know how that happens. theought the reaction of country, the outrage from the country was tremendously inspiring. >> and was immediate and essentially overwhelming that something had to be done. this was on except the bull and get rid of the guy. >> michael jordan does not like to get involved and i thought his statement over the weekend, as one of theing great athletes. he is speaking as a member of to kick outat wants sterling. there's going to be a fight. he will be dragged kicking and screaming. i am told he has to a deal today what he could have handed it over to his wife and walked away. he is an attention hound. he has been a clown for a long

time. >> he has been all this for a long time. is this simply the first time anybody put it on tape and put it out there or did everybody know that he was a man who thought the way he did? >> one of the things that was referenced today was elgin baylor, one of the great players in history, sued him for age dissemination and racial discrimination and pulled back from the racial stuff. people want to know why the league did not do something. he lost that case. >> elgin did. >> yes. one of the things that impressed me about silver as he did not attempt to prosecute the past. he prosecuted this offense. and he did it swiftly and i think he did it honorably. watched himle who today really wanted to stand up and cheer at the end of this because he did take the lead. we always say this is why these guys get the big bucks. and three months into this he got -- this thing fell into his lap and gob smacked him the way

a gob smacked the rest of us over the weekend. >> does it a reminder to all of us of what is present in american life and therefore we have to be more vigilant in making sure we get it out? sure. >> might it produce a dialogue about racism? >> every time something like this happens we hear there will dialogue. that dialogue seems to last until the next news cycle and everybody moves on. and one of the side issues, he said this in private. sober slamdunk that notion. it is public now and he doubt with a public record in dealing with mr. sterling. >> although the sports owners will be paying attention and asking to have the same kind of -- at any point in my organization, racism so pronounced. this is like a signal to

everybody in sports. you cannot take this stuff for granted. >> annex nba player and a very good one send me a text today and he said now the question is, who is sterling going to take down with him, what does he know about what happened in the old boys club. what does he know about what is happening in that room? it is astonishing when you think about it. he is the guy because he has seniority. who has been betting the new owners. and -- >> as to whether they are appropriate for the league. anyone who thinks he is the only incident of this kind of thing in the league is wrong. >> without a doubt. you have on the other side of this, players who routinely use the n-word. the rulesre is -- seem to be different for whites and blacks. mine,aid to a friend of

we are constantly rewriting the rules in america. people who do not keep up with the rulebook are destined to take the kind of fall that donald sterling took today. >> thank you for coming. >> always good to be here. >> back in a moment. stay with us. i was in rome over the weekend for the canonization of two popes. we arrived on saturday went to st. peter's square were people were arriving to be part of this historic day in the life of the roman catholic church. never before had to former popes been canonized on the same day. they were the best known folks of the 20th century. one had a short tenure. john paul ii had a long service of almost 27 years. anticipation for the historic day was building. we talked with delia gallagher. inside editor for "inside the

vatican" magazine. >> great anticipation as you walk around and excitement of what will happen. what is the significance? >> there are a number of significant things about it. it boils down to the fact that these two popes are loved by the people. they are the original peoples popes. and john paul came xxiii was the -- john called the peasant pope. >> and then called the good pope. and why? he could talk to the people. he came out and he was the one who went to the hospitals and visited sick children. they went first to prisons and visited prisoners. the thing that he

started. >> there is -- he admires him deeply. it was said after the conclave that one of the cardinal said said i wouldal have chosen the name john. greatclear that he has xxiii.tion for john vaticand the second council which was the revolutionary movement. >> to reform the church. >> he was able to do both important things in the church but have the common touch. >> there was resistance to vatican ii and then came pope ii,.l roman an --

. many believe he represented the conservative wing. >> he was conservative. he was traditional. there was one element about john paul ii that made him really hisial, in addition to charisma, which was his mysticism. he was a poet and poets or people who see differently, who believe in the invisible. a mystic is a poet in a religious context. i think that one thing that stood out to me was any time he was not talking to somebody or doing something official he was praying. if you walked up to him you would see him moving his rosary and moving his lips and he was always praying. one foot on the other

side. he lived the concept of the communion of saints and people and have in helping him on earth. i think he genuinely believed in that power. people make fun of him because he made so many saints. i believe he believed in the power of those saints. >> there was much talk of sainthood. >> right after the funeral. the term means -- means make him a saint immediately. the side two is going to be a saint. that is why it is easy to be cynical about the vatican making saints and encouraging catholics to devote themselves but it is about a recognition that the people want. >> he love these saints. got fast-track.

>> that was a rule that he himself set in motion allowing a pope to decide if he did not want to wait the five years that he could start the process. benedict could not do anything but start the process that early. it is still a formal process. they have to go through his writings and interview everyone he has ever met. they interviewed all kinds of heads of state and his neighbors. it is a process. >> with john there was only one miracle and they waved the requirement. >> that is correct. pope francis is showing us their this is an important figure for him. because he decided to waive that requirement for the second miracle. >> we also talked to monsignor figorito. >> two very different men.

he came from a peasant family and always remembered his roots. all ii.d pope john a great teacher but again really love people. i think francis wants to bring to loves into our minds people. if the church does not reach people it remains irrelevant. pope francis is saying this is what really matters. these popes who loved people and that is where i want the church to go. >> how does this pope make those of you who are part of the establishment of the vatican feel? >> it make me very excited about the future and i tell you why. sometimes the church can be seen simply as an institution. full of bureaucracy, full of institutions, full of buildings. but the church is a living entity. what someone like st.

francis believed in. when god told him rebuild my church. he was not talking about bricks and mortar. he was talking about what someo. rebuildingieved the lives of people. that is where the church needs to go. that is where pope john went and now pope francis is going. >> how does the process of sainthood work? rex in the case of john and john it was the ordinary people. aople were shouting may he be g saint immediately. it was the same with john the 23rd. there was this air of sanctity because he was a good man. it begins with the grassroots but there is a process which we need to follow. norm in termsthe of miracles are followed. who decides whether that can be changed? the pope.

>> he said there were two and that is fine. , the process of sanctification belongs to the holy father. it is an infallible teaching. >> he decides in the end. these two men. and he knew the odor of sanctity. he said there saints and i want them to be saints. >> to be a saint means what? >> theeans to persevere in midst of great difficulties. we have discovered this in john the 23rd. both experienced great difficulty. john was from a simple family. he went through difficulties when he was an ambassador in paris and turkey. he helped jews escape. and with john paul ii.

through his own physical sufferings. to goad the courage forward. the church is recognizing that in them. that gives us courage because it means even the simplest person living in their homes perhaps with a disabled person, perhaps with an old person, perhaps with difficulties in their marriage or difficulties with their children can go forward believing that god helps them. that is why we declare them saints. ♪ >> at 10 a.m. on sunday room

time, the services began with st. peter's full. one millionted that for thisme to room historic event. the first hour was about the canonization. hope francis declared the two men saints. the mass followed canonization. both with some waivers for

requirements for sainthood which only a pope can do. watching the moment was pope benedict for this historic event. the first hour was about the canonization. xvi. i met with cardinal timothy dolan and the archbishop of washington. >> he call them men of courage ii a poped john paul of family. >> i am glad he did. for pope francis, marriage and family is a biggie. he talks about it a lot. he chose as the topic for the ds ofsentence -- syno bishops the topic of marriage and family. theeclared john paul ii patron of married couples and families. he recalled the wealth of teaching that john paul ii gave

on marriage and family. i was glad to hear them -- him say that. ito because as you will know has been some rumors that francis would take a radical departure from the past and the church is teachings on marriage and family. all of us know he cannot change the substance of the teaching but when he referred to john being the pope of marriage and family we thought there it is again. there is great continuity in the teaching of the church. there is hardly any rupture. it is a beautiful flow from jesus through the apostles and he is continuing that. >> this was his thing. canonization was a decision by this pope. do youand -- what and,

think? rex it was a surprise. it is no surprise that they would be saints. the surprise would be that this quickly and together, those were the two surprises. -- a good is in the teacher. you have got to give signs, you have to use teachable moments, you have to use audiovisual aids. he thought we all know that one of the things pope francis wants to do is bring the church together. tooaid we argue and bicker much. we have to give an example of love and unity. and focus. johnows shrewdly that are calledohn uu upon by the church. ii is cited by the traditional. there ground this but the

perception is real. what francis is saying is i'm supposed to be average builder. . i will bring the sides together and canonize them both. i will hold of them up for emulation and folks learn from this. we're supposed to agree. big church and we have firm for everyone. >> you see the -- them reaching out. he is doing it well. of -- what that one part of john paul did is to undo xx third roman 23rd -- had done at the second vatican council. >> there are said -- those who envisioned some

of the radical consuls that he inspired. what we do know is that both are the or less the bookends of second battle council. he saw it through the first delicate session. itn paul ii implemented during his pontificate. there is no doubt that john paul some ways the council was being misinterpreted. as far as the genius of the council and the genuine reform, he was all for it. rex do you think this church is at this moment in a time of reform question mark >> i do. >> reform of what? >> having said that you were kind enough to note i am a church historian. there is a beautiful latin phrase.

the church always in need of reform. always the church is being called to cleansing and peer for keeshan. we see that in the new testament. jesus went back to his father. the church was having some crises and difficulties. were calling them back saying this is the wrong way to go. we have to remember what jesus intended. there is always reform and renewal. the most vivid time of reform and renewal would have been the second vatican council of 1962-1965. and now we could be there again. it is a most like you always see 50 years after a console is a time of turmoil and anxiety and working out what the council meant. -- 50 years is done. we have a pope who says let's

take a deep breath. most of the work of implementation is done. we have a lot of bruised feelings and people who might feel dispirited on one side or the other. let's think out for the council and hold of these great hopes and let's get to work. >> is it possible that although church doctrine is not likely to be changed, if you open up a is theren and say why so much opposition in this doctrine, that somehow they might develop a different attitude? >> attitude could be a good word. they could be a very good word to use. you are a student of what is going on in the life of the church. you do not see disagreement about doctrine if you talk about the trinity or the nature of jesus christ. you are troubled by the implications doctrine. the interpretation.

>> you can change that. >> you can try to change the implication. do -- far does in fallibility extend? >> you have a pope that is trying to diminish in some ways the prerogatives of the papacy. he is not much for the trappings. he wants to emphasize he is one of us. is leaning upon a people prerogative. the way he did it with the jesuit saint. peter fabra.ke he is a saint now. >> my kind of guy. >> let's get this done. he is tapping into is the sense of the faithful.

he has his ear to the ground. it is almost miraculous, he is saying that in this day and age and the world can agree that a man like john is a saint. sense got that savvy about him. >> and symbolism and all of that. the cardinal came in second. many of you said i knew he was a pastor. but i did not know he was a rock star. did something is, happen to him when he became pope or do we simply magnify those qualities that people knew

made, what is it that has him at the center of the conversation in the world in one year? >> you're onto something. the cardinals are not surprised in the man that we got. we can see he listened as we were talking in this 10 days before the conclave. surprised he's doing it. where surprised he is doing it with such a beautiful effectiveness. fix you could be onto something. i know a fellow who is close to him. he saw him at world youth day that is not jorge. has happened to him? he said a gratefully. there could be something.

for me as a man of faith there is something we call the charism of office. theying the burden that lord has given him. we need somebody. if he did not have the acclaim or the popularity that he is got i do not know if you would be able to be as effective. officeome people say the makes the man or the woman. in some cases the man or woman makes the office. there is this impact of the office changing the person or the person changing the office. >> he is doing a little bit of both. he has risen to the occasion. this is what you're getting at. he has not allowed himself to be, cap give of the papacy. there is a massive infrastructure.

i have told you the story. the day after he was elected. his first mass is in the sistine chapel. is notinals go in and he one of us anymore. carrying his alb and y -- he sits down separated and starts the mass. they are telling him what he needs to do at mass. he said thank you, please stay close that i have been saying mass for 50 years. i know what i am doing. there is an example. a very simple way of saying if i need you i will call. i am grateful that you are there.

>> a person's capacity to rise may be produced by the need of people. they recognize that someone reflects what they have been yearning for. >> a case could be made that he blessed. have been ofy have done a stellar job reclaiming the church's patrimony of truth in doctrine. can reassert the tender, merciful, loving, embracing side. both are essential. he would be the first to say maybe i can do a balancing act. kind of working on the magnificent accomplishment that they did in reasserting the church's intellectual theological testimony.

it's spiritual riches. i can keep building that up and let's work on the merciful, wonderful, embracing side. >> our friend said it well. he is the world's parish priest. and you know we cannot sell john paul ii. we think of john paul and his last 11 years when he was fragile. he was star of the world when he started this. when he was meeting people all over the place and he traveled the globe. into the the office ceo of the world. delete graham said he is the world's pastor. francis is recovering that. >> with this growing sense of him at the center of world

conversation, with income inequality and tolerance for people of different opinions and all of that, there is the question of the pope as a explainer of value who paul at pope john all -- -- >> the church played a role. nothe pope's coinage, he has currency to float, no borders to protect. his coinage is simply values, truth, beauty, and goodness. this pope while he does everything to try to diminish you might call the cloud of the papacy has skyrocketed under him. he is returning to what the church does best.

values, human dignity. the sacredness of human life, the defense of the voiceless. he is returning to that. his stock does weigh up and now he is becoming a major player. >> the more your stock goes up the more influence and leverage you have. might he speak out on ukraine? >> i think he would. there is always when the pope speaks out you have got the moral cerebral ideal. he has done that already. thell for dialogue. does pope get more pointed? sometimes they have gotten pointed. remember john paul in the croatian-serbian crisis. he got a lot more pointed. it is delicate. the bishops in that country may be saying we need your help spiritually. if you just reassert values.

if you get too involved in the intricacies you could harm us. that is a delicate and that the pope has to weigh. i get it if i travel. i will have one bishop saying you were the arch bishop of new york. we need you to speak out about the persecution where undergoing. the next is please do not say anything because it will get worse. you're kind of in a catch-22. i want to listen to both my brothers. by 1000 and that is what you have the pope. it takes a man of prayer and prudence and listening to know what to do. >> is it fair just to say because so much has happened it is unimaginable what he might accomplish? >> i think he is -- for member when john -- remember

was in, he had said he did not have that much time. i think francis knows that his , i want him to reign as long as possible. the use of practical man that will take it day by day but there is a sense of urgency. >> thank you. >> thank you. i am glad you are in rome. >> always good to be with you. thank you. historic day we are not likely to see again. chances in the lifetime of anyone moving into the future that there would be a retired hope sitting together at

the canonization of two popes, both of whom reigned in the lifetime of many of the people in that square? this is not just a historic moment. it is a unique moment. >> what does it represent? >> what it says to the world is the discourse of today is being focused by those for human beings. john and allh through the pontificate of john paul ii. we should find faith within ourselves. and now you have pope francis repeating it in the presence of benedict. i think what has happened and maybe it will be the historian

100 years from now who will can. what has happened is the whole discourse is elevated to the level where the presumption is we should be at peace. the presumption is we should respect one another. and live together. that is all new. historyl new in human as we are seeing it unfold today. >> conflict is not necessarily what we should assume. we should assume peace and dialogue and understanding. and respect and tolerance. >> he was saying it is a big part of john paul ii. if you have a world full of people coming out of different ethnic traditions, different shouldn'titions, pluralism has a component part -- >> it is being cared to rise to

-- characterized that john paul is more conservative. liberal.i more thehat is there is continuity. take a fresh we look at how the gospel is being resented. -- presented. the same.ays you can have a relationship with god and outcomes francis who xxiii but whohn we needssage of peace,

to find dialogue and communication. and what captures it all for me is francis is simply saying here's how you do it. >> he seems to be a man who comes to the papacy with a sense of urgency. 76, 78. comes with a sense of urgency and secondly comes with a sense of being unafraid to challenge the church where he thinks it needs to be challenged. >> i think that is absolutely true. he he is able to do that is is deeply rooted spiritually and deeply immersed in the tradition of the church. he has a 2000 year tradition out of which he speaks. he seems to be serenely

comfortable in that tradition. and has a freedom that only comes when interiorly you are at peace with god and yourself. >> the church is in its workings a political place. people who vigorously debate each other within the church. he seems to welcome that. >> that is one of the refreshing signs. he said we need to be looking at what each one of us is experiencing is the presence of god in our lives. as parameters. he's encouraging everyone to doinge how well are we this.

>> you have a powerful job as you know. you are the person who is going to help select the new bishops. you are helping define the church by the people that you and others select. how do you handle that? >> one of the things the pope said to us, he came to a meeting of the congregation and he said to all of us, your is to present to meet pastors of souls. he said i will assume that they are well presumed theologically. i will presume that they are well prepared. but now they have to have this spirit of the pastor. all of us who grew up in parishes where there was a priest to cared for the people,

that is what comes to mind. not that we change the face of the church. >> you are choosing the future of the church. you are changing the future church. >> changing the direction. is and that what john said when he called the council? you mentioned earlier and you were on target. there is a continuity between john and francis. that continuity includes all those popes in between that have refined the message. >> will be hardest for francis to do? lexapro -- probably the big challenge is keeping the momentum going and keeping everybody together and on board.

what he is trying to do is what xxiii call the updating of the church and francis seems to have taken that to heart. we have to find a way of getting the message out. he said something i find really beautiful. the message is not that complicated. ust is what he is saying to create >> who is opposed him in the church? >> i do not know if there is opposition to him. any time you begin to refocus, that means there are some things out of focus. the goal is to help all of us refocus on the needs of the poor so there can be universal peace. when you start doing that you challenge everybody to refocus

their lands a bit. that can be hard. >> there are those issues that have made church attendance decline. why is that? >> you have to put that in the larger perspective. the great cultural shift. i am talking about the western arld. we have watched cultural revolution, the sexual revolution, the economic revolution. all these things have been woven together. the result has been a heavy emphasis on the secular. as if issues are all about what is going on. .long comes a series of popes saying there is more.

i am hearing and seeing, whatof young people saying francis is saying touches me. what he is saying is ringing a bell, touching accord. they are saying there is a credibility to this because he lives it. >> what do you think of the judge?who am i to church judges. >> the church judges because god has placed the law in our hearts. it has been articulated in the commandments and jesus said this is the way you should live. it should be merciful,

compassionate. there is already a moral law. the pope is saying i am not going to go around and make judgments about where you stand in relation to that law. you should be addressing in your own heart how do i relate to god, how do i relate to my neighbor in a way that reflect what god calls us to be. you should judge yourself. >> is that what jesus himself do not judge mark lest you be judged. that does not mean that there is not a norm. each of us is called to look at that norm. how will this change woman in the church, abortion, same-sex marriage. clearly there will be change in terms of how the church comes down on predatory sexual abuse i

assume. will all these things change significantly because of this vote is your >> i do not think we will see so much change in such as abortion. there are some things that are intrinsic to our human experience. my right to life is intrinsic to who i am a human being. it does not come from anybody else but god. we even say that in our own founding documents. inalienable right to life. that will not change. one of the things i think this holy father is inviting us to do is to be more compassionate with people who have found themselves in situations. >> to find out what so many

people come away these issues seem to be so divisive and to find out why there is so much pushback on the church doctrine on these? >> one of the reasons why i believe is because there is so strong another current out there. the secular current that is the dominant voice in our society see thesedoes not specific values we are talking about. there is always going to be pushback. every disciple lives in the midst of the world. hearing all this influence around us. and that is where we keep owing to church to hear what did jesus say, what should be the response to a secular world that says this is the way you should do it. >> he seems to have said i understand these things but they are there.

here is toe effort remember and engage in the pastoral role. clearly, before you get into all of these areas where there is contention, shouldn't we start by inviting people to know god in the first place and if you come to know god you realize you are loved. god is love. he sent his son into our world to show it was -- show us what love is about. francis's message is simple. start with knowing your loved. there are a lot of people on this planet who have never experienced that. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> good to be with you. ♪

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>> this is "taking stock" for april 30, 2014. i'm pimm fox. oprah winfrey thinks that the clippers may suit her just one day after donald sterling is banned from the nba. oprah winfrey says she is in discussions to make a joint bid for the term. -- the team. plus, meet the man who has designed suits for frank sinatra, clint eastwood, and ringo starr. also, the chief executive gives details behind futuristic suits.